schneefink | Black Sails finale

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Black Sails finale

We watched the last four episodes of Black Sails today and I have a whole big confused tangled of intense emotions. Separate ones for the Watsonian and Doylist perspective: the latter I'm not yet sure about, I think I'll need more time to think about it, and the former mostly anger.

FUUUUUUCK JOHN SILVER. He's still a selfish asshole, just of a different kind than when the show started. "I betrayed everything you've worked for because I love you," how did Madi not stab him. And it wasn't even a spontaneous decision after her kidnapping, no, he was working toward preventing that war that Flint and Madi wanted for far longer than that. When did he decide? When the pirates failed to invade Nassau, or already while he was living with Madi at the maroon camp? When he decided not to tell Flint about Thomas being alive as soon as he found out, was he already planning on using that to figuratively disarm him? "I don't want that war because the cost would be too high," who the FUCK are you to decide that. How about you ask the slaves fleeing their masters and freeing their brethren from their chains if they think the cost is too high. I thought living at the maroon camp with Madi for months made him sympathetic to the fight of the slaves, apparently not. Nope, it's all only about himself. What a fucking asshole. Flint should have let him be shot.

Max and Anne and Jack and Featherstone and Idelle got a very nice ending, that at least was an enjoyable silver lining. I really liked Marion Guthrie, I liked her rapport with Max, but I also liked that Max refused the plan presented to her and be the governor's wife and found another way instead. "Mark" Read was a delightful bonus at the end.

So Flint was subdued by Silver and his men and taken to the plantation, where he met Thomas again. I loved that reunion. But, uh, seeing Thomas again doesn't turn back time. What, does Silver really think Flint will just stay on that plantation with Thomas forever and be happy or at least satisfied? I give them a few weeks before they break out. And Flint is still the only one who knows where the treasure chest is. He should get in contact with Madi. They missed the timing for the war they wanted, but that doesn't mean they'll give up.

I did not expect quite that many people from the Walrus' crew to die, and I was very sad that the Walrus itself didn't make it. Mr. de Groot didn't make it, Joji was killed by Flint himself, and there were very few survivors. Billy survived, but fuck him.

Tomorrow we'll watch all the specials and finally start reading fic, which I look forward to. (I want ALL the canon-divergent AUs.) I'll try to clarify my feelings about the finale.

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and I have a whole big confused tangled of intense emotions.

Yep, sounds normal.

When did he decide? When the pirates failed to invade Nassau, or already while he was living with Madi at the maroon camp?

Not pre-invasion of Nassau, because he's fully on board in 4.01 and not doing anything to try to undermine that.

When he decided not to tell Flint about Thomas being alive as soon as he found out, was he already planning on using that to figuratively disarm him?

He's presumably at least got the possibility in his head, yeah.

On the other hand, it's unclear when he actually finds out that Thomas is alive -- depending on the exact timeline of Tom Morgan gets back from Georgia, it's either going to be just before he hears that Madi is "dead" or just after.

Before that, all he has is the info we see Max give him about the prison farm in Georgia, and a wild hunch (you can argue he should have told Flint and Madi as soon as he had that first inkling, but it's still distinct from the point when he knows for sure that Thomas is alive and chooses not to tell Flint).

How about you ask the slaves fleeing their masters and freeing their brethren from their chains if they think the cost is too high.

Well, Julius clearly did, remember. It's not just the cost, it's also the high risk that they will lose the war (especially salient after seeing the Spanish raze Nassau to the ground with a mere handful of their ships). And, as Julius says, some of them are going to end up back in chains at that point.

The treaty that they sign (the one Madi rejected) is based on the one the Jamaican Maroons signed after their first war, and it's usually regarded as a substantial win for them because it guaranteed their freedom, albeit at the terrible cost of returning other escaped slaves.

I completely agree with you that Silver is making decisions on behalf of other people that he has absolutely no right to make! And his betrayal of Madi is unforgiveable.

But he's not the only person who is not on board with Flint's war.

So Flint was subdued by Silver and his men and taken to the plantation, where he met Thomas again. I loved that reunion. But, uh, seeing Thomas again doesn't turn back time. What, does Silver really think Flint will just stay on that plantation with Thomas forever and be happy or at least satisfied? I give them a few weeks before they break out.

Hooray, you can now read Unaccommodated Man by kvikindi, the novella-length James/Thomas post-series fic that you will need at this point.

I would like to think that Silver only found out about Thomas actually being alive after hearing that Madi died, that would make it easier to point at that moment and say "that's (probably) where he changed his mind." (That would mean that Morgen would have had to get back to the camp to tell him, when he probably tried to return to Nassau first, but maybe he heard about the Spanish coming to Nassau and came to the right conclusion.)

Yes, Silver wasn't the only one not on board with Flint's war (and Flint was going way too far with his plans imo.) (Here the problem comes into play that we don't see enough of the maroons and escaped slaves to be able to tell how many of them wanted it. There is a lot of emphasis on how pirate captains are dependent on being able to convince their crews that their way is the right way, on how Flint's and Silver's superpower is convincing people to follow them, so that we can assume that when a pirate crew does something (that last longer than one or at most two battles) the crew has agreed to it. While in the maroon camp we only ever see the "queen" (is there a name for her? Has fandom decided on a name for her?) deciding, and later Madi, and they have much authority and are clearly highly respected but we don't know how much the rest of the camp agrees with them, especially since Madi apparently inherited her position. It's a less democratic system of government than the pirates have. We don't know about Julius, but with him what also comes into play is that, as Madi said, Silver deliberately influenced him.)

I'm not really mad that Silver was against the war, personally. I can understand that. But he seemed to not even fully understand why some people, why Madi in particular, might want it so bad, he seemed to dismiss the potential gains and what Madi (and Flint) wanted to reach, and that I found infuriating. He made a choice for other people that he had no right to make and he didn't even properly consider what that choice meant.
(At the very least they could have held out for a better treaty, I'm convinced they were in a position where they could have reached that.)

Thanks for the rec, I enjoyed that :)

(That would mean that Morgen would have had to get back to the camp to tell him, when he probably tried to return to Nassau first, but maybe he heard about the Spanish coming to Nassau and came to the right conclusion.

Or he got back to Nassau when Silver was off at the Underhill plantation, and escaped with Featherstone on the Walrus.

that would make it easier to point at that moment and say "that's (probably) where he changed his mind."

Though he's still pretty committed to the war -- actually, the period when Madi's "dead" may be when he's most committed to it on a personal level. He's got that agonizing speech about how she died for this so it has to mean something.

(Here the problem comes into play that we don't see enough of the maroons and escaped slaves to be able to tell how many of them wanted it.

Yeah, I really wanted Julius and Ruth in particular to have about twice the screentime in S4 they actually did. They're great whenever they appear; they deserved more.

(And IMHO they could have carved out at least some of the time just by cutting some of Woodes Rogers' angsting after Eleanor's death. No insult intended to Luke Roberts who gives a fine performance and seems like a charming person in interviews; it's just really not the most interesting thing at that point.)

But he seemed to not even fully understand why some people, why Madi in particular, might want it so bad, he seemed to dismiss the potential gains and what Madi (and Flint) wanted to reach, and that I found infuriating. He made a choice for other people that he had no right to make and he didn't even properly consider what that choice meant.

Yes, absolutely! I think -- Silver's never had morals or ideological beliefs of any kind. He goes from being completely isolated and avoiding attachments to being forced to care about people and becoming attached, in particular to Madi and to Flint. And he'd die for the people he cares about, and he's willing to have them hate him for the rest of time if it means they're safe and alive (which I LOVE in dramatic terms, because it's so deeply selfish and selfless at the same time).

But his emotional sphere never widens to include attachment to entire peoples, let alone abstract beliefs or principles about what's right morally/politically. He's got connections to specific individuals and that's it.

(Whereas Madi is so rooted in her connection to her people and to that "chorus of voices".)

So. Yeah. I LOVE the show's ending, because I am so torn up by it, because I find Silver's actions so painfully understandable (and also in character), because I look at Flint talking about sacking Boston and go OH GOD THIS IS SO DOOMED YOU ARE ALL GOING TO DIE and at the same time a bit of me is going "But maybe, maybe there was a chance history could have been different ..." I love it. My heart is broken for all of them, and simultaneously I love the show for weaving happy endings in, for the bits and pieces of hope for individual lives despite history.

[/babble]

Or he got back to Nassau when Silver was off at the Underhill plantation, and escaped with Featherstone on the Walrus.

I thought that Silver only got to the plantation when the Spanish were already approaching, but I'm not sure about the timeline so you could be right.

Though he's still pretty committed to the war -- actually, the period when Madi's "dead" may be when he's most committed to it on a personal level. He's got that agonizing speech about how she died for this so it has to mean something.

Yes, but (especially in hindsight) it kind of seems like he feels he has to, but doesn't really want to fight this war anymore.

And IMHO they could have carved out at least some of the time just by cutting some of Woodes Rogers' angsting after Eleanor's death.

I completely agree. I'm not that happy with Eleanor's death in general, and I could have done with a lot less Rogers angsting about it.

because I find Silver's actions so painfully understandable (and also in character)

I think part of the reason why I felt so betrayed was because to some degree I was seeing Silver as who I wanted him to be rather than who he actually was; i.e. I wanted to believe that he had started to actually believe, at least somewhat, in Flint or at least Madi's causes, instead of just supporting them because he cares about them personally. Just like he did with so many people, he fooled me, too. With a bit more distance I'm (slightly) less angry at him and like the ending a little bit more.
...also, so many possibilities for fix-it fic.

Babble away :D Though I think for more in-depth discussions I'll need to watch the show again. What a hardship.

As a side-note (brain is not up to proper comments today): on the subject of in-depth discussions, and meta about Silver in particular, I highly recommend seeking out interviews with Luke Arnold, particularly the two eps of Fathoms Deep (a fan podcast) he did.

He is legit fannish, and has put even more time and energy into over-thinking and analyzing this stuff than the rest of us. Basically he's a self-identified "uber-super-blacksails-fangirl" who also happens to be in the show; it's pretty adorable.

He has some fascinating meta on his take on Silver's thought processes (without ever giving the impression that he thinks his reading is more valid than anyone else's).

Jon Steinberg's also very good for insight into the showrunners/writers' perspective.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check that podcast out :)

Following the show in real-time must have been something. I bet fandom after the season finale was... a lot.

I bet fandom after the season finale was... a lot.

Dude, I remember having followed a few Black Sails infested blogs during that time-- and they just exploded. It was highly entertaining! :D

I'm sorry I missed that! But relieved I could watch everything in one go instead of having to wait a week for each new episode. What were the most common reactions? Sadly there isn't much about the fandom on Fanlore.

Heh! I could mention here that I mostly follow(ed) SilverFlint shippers, but obviously only the nice ones? Because therefore there was only shocked happines about the Flint/Thomas reunion, and also deeply felt heartbreak with Silver. Because it's kind of obvious that he won't reconcile with Madi, but stand on that cliff and stare bereft at where sea meets skies.

... And if that's no fine point to weave your post-canon fics from I don't know. :D There is, seriously, so much goodness. If you asked me for recs I wouldn't know where to begin, but I could start?

Running home to you by vowelinthug is a very fine option for post canon. Actually all of her writing is a blessing; her way to join depth with humour is brilliant.

Closer to the water by mapped is about Mark Read (you found yourself intrigued with, right?) and his relationship with Jack and Anne, and if this fic isn't the very best that could have happened to a character who appeared for what? 2 minutes within a show a lightning should strike me down. Also, the author is a blessing as well.

El Cuentacuento by straddling_the_atmosphere presents maybe the possibility to warm you with John Silver-- or whatever his name could be. I love the way the show creators solved his backstory.

Yer mother darns socks in hell by youatemytailor is, as one could guess, a slightly lighter take on the SilverFlint situation. Very nicely done!

Better men by LittleLynn is a brave piece about amnesia!Flint around bitter!Silver; it's a WIP, something I hesitate to recommend usually, but this is very fine.

I hope you enjoy some of these! Tell me if our tastes in fic overlap. :3

Edited 2018-06-05 16:12 (UTC)

I need to compile a proper fics recs post at some point, but it occurs to me that this might be highly relevant to your interests:

stele3's ongoing Tether series

Three stories so far, post-series, tipping into Silver/Flint/Hamilton, hopeful but with a credibly damaged and prickly James and John and a marvellous Thomas POV. And effective use of supporting OCs (something that doesn't always work well for me).

*makes grabby hands* Oh, thank you very much. Sounds very intriguing! ♥

I MEAN WHAT CAN GO WRONG WHEN YOUR ICON LOOKS THE WAY HE DOES.

THOMAS LOOKS AT HIM LOOKING THE WAY HE DOES AND LOOKS AT HIM AND JAMES LOOKING AT EACH OTHER AND HAS SOME THOUGHTS, IS WHAT.

I feel like Thomas can sometimes end up as a bit of a plaster saint in post-series fic, the Best Kindest Most Pure Noble Person Ever. Which is a terrible fate for a character. stele3 writes him with his own brand of ruthlessness (as well as kindness), and it's fantastic.

To be fair it's really hard to write Thomas post-series! You get a few glimpses of how he was more than ten years ago, and since then he's been through terrible experiences, and we know no details. Almost anything would be plausible. I look forward to reading another version of him :)

To be fair it's really hard to write Thomas post-series!

Oh, definitely! It's got to be an extrapolation in one way or another. I think kvikindi's version is amazing, and stele3's is very different but also plausible and wonderful. And they both ring true as people who could have been the Thomas we see in the flashbacks.

A couple of nice bits of Thomas meta I bookedmarked, in case they're of interest:

http://sidewaystime.tumblr.com/post/159278265615/crabsandlobsters-yes-lets-talk-about-thomas
http://keensers.tumblr.com/post/160054663533/wow-since-we-never-talk-about-black-sails-thomas

Thomas can sometimes end up as a bit of a plaster saint in post-series fic

Oh, definitely. That's why I'm always glad about him when he's written with a ruthless flavour, and being cunningly sharp with words. I like it very much when he banters with Silver just on this side of jarring. ♥

Yes, Thomas and Silver are among the characters who never meet in canon who I'd be most fascinated to see interacting and talking just for the sake of it -- it'd be so interesting.

Max and Flint would be another two (okay, they are technically in one scene together in canon, but don't interact as such). Ditto Miranda and Silver. Or Anne and Flint. And I loved the bit of Madi and Eleanor interaction we got, but could happily watch five times as much.

THOMAS LOOKS AT HIM LOOKING THE WAY HE DOES AND LOOKS AT HIM AND JAMES LOOKING AT EACH OTHER AND HAS SOME THOUGHTS, IS WHAT.

I MEAN NOT TO CALL THAT GOING WRONG, BUT IT DEFINITELY LEADS TO A NUMBER OF EVENTS OCCURRING.

:D I like the way your mind works.

Oh, it's the way stele3's mind works; I can claim no credit. *g*

Thanks for the recs! :D

I think there's a whole second wave of people who got into the show because of all the fannish screaming after the finale (Gavia Baker-Whitelaw talks about this in her "Not That, This!" podcast appearance).

Sounds likely, yes ^^ Not having to wait between episodes also has its advantages, and confirmation that the show did not fuck up the ending.

P.S.

juliet's just finished the show, in case you fancy company in HAVING ALL THE FEELS:

https://rydra-wong.dreamwidth.org/551589.html

Thanks for the heads-up! :)

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