Babylon 5 4x04 - 4x08: That was fast.
Feb. 28th, 2015 12:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
schneefinkFalling Toward Apotheosis: Now it's known that the Vorlons are attacking and destroying other worlds. If it became widely known that the Vorlons were "angels" that would lead to quite a few religious crises, I expect...
Sheridan says this is the first time he's seen Ivanova afraid. Maybe just the first time he saw it, but it is a pretty terrifying situation.
Poor Garibaldi. He talks/complains to Zack, that's good, and I wish they showed us more Garibaldi&Ivanova friendship though they're both most likely too busy to catch up much. It's very understandable that he's annoyed that his and Sheridan' inexplicable absences are treated so differently. So then when he's already feeling like Sheridan doesn't trust him and then Sheridan sends him on a mission and says he's aware they don't have a chance, without sufficient explanations, that can't help.
Lyta led the Vorlon into, was that some sort of electric cage? That, plus guns, forced him out of his suit, and then he fights with some sort of energy that comes out of Sheridan, a mix of what's left of Khosh, some of Lorien, and some of Sheridan himself. So Khosh turned against his people? I wonder how aware that little part of him still was. The new Vorlon did say that Khosh had become fond of the younger races, Vorlons aren't all the same.
Sheridan has twenty more years, maybe for him that's not bad, but how long do Minbari live? Maybe for Delenn after sixty years his passing would be no easier. They're engaged now, that's nice.
Cartagia is still crazy. He actively plans to destroy Centauri Prime as a funeral pyre on his way to becoming a god. And he thinks Mollari is very similar to him, heh. Londo can be good at manipulation when he wants to be.
The Long Night: Cartagia is dead! Finally! That was a much quicker and easier death than he deserved. Vir killed him, I kind of liked that, even though for poor Vir it's something new. I liked that the co-conspirators reminded Londo that he's not innocent in putting Cartagia on the throne. (It's a good sign that there are people left who can be co-conspirators.) He was the one to act, no wonder they made him Prime Minister. And he fulfills his promise to G'Kar and moves the Centauri off Narn.
G'Kar freed his planet! The scene where he moved through the masses with the beam on his back, stumbles, and tells his people not to fear, was such an obvious Christian reference. He refuses to become Emperor, good for him, I just hope the Narns who think they need a strong leader and to take revenge on the Centauri aren't the majority.
They're amassing a huge fleet and planning a big battle against the Vorlons - what, already? You just found out about their fleet two episodes ago! They must have skipped a couple of episodes because of the scheduling. Trying to put the Vorlons and Shadows against each directly sounds like a good idea.
Of course Ivanova feels like she needs to be involved, she doesn't need to be protected.
They're sending Ericsson on a suicide mission, knowingly and to his face. War isn't easy.
Into the Fire: Did... they just end the Shadow War? Just like that? Wow, that was fast. I bet originally that was at least a mid-season two-parter with a few more episodes before that. Only three episodes after they found out about the Vorlon fleet it's already gone.
3 billion people on Centauri Prime, 6 billion on Coriana VI. I like how obvious they made it that war is about brutal numbers sometimes.
I don't care that Sheridan and Delenn want to be in the middle of the action, you don't send both of them in the same ship to the front line for skirmishes. For the last battle, okay, they needed to be close so Lyta could reach the Vorlons, but still.
Londo got the Shadows off Centauri Prime! By blowing up an island and a few Centauri volunteers. I'm glad he found out that Morden killed Adira and the extent to which he was played. Conveniently he found out while Morden was still alive. And then, as a gift from Londo, Vir gets to experience his wish of waving to Morden's head on a pike *g*
Londo even asks Vir to kill him so that the Vorlons don't destroy Centauri Prime because of him. (They might just have done it as a warning to other worlds anyway.) Characters asking other characters to kill them pushes many of my h/c buttons, so I enjoyed that.
When the White Star attacked both the Vorlons and the Shadows I was very surprised, because wasn't the original plan to let them fight each other? Apparently not, the plan was to talk to them and try to make them stop. I bet they didn't tell their Allies that (I wonder what they thought about that later...)
I'm relieved that they brought more First Ones. Every time they talked about finding them I was annoyed because I thought they forgot that Susan and Marcus already found one race. AV said that in a fusion, the Doctor would be one of the First Ones, and I agree. A meddler.
Sheridan and Delenn planned for their conversations on the spirit plane (?) to be broadcast to the rest of the fleet (Lorien), so they were expecting that. Lorien must have told them that, I assume? And helped them out with figuring out what the Vorlons and Shadows originally wanted. The Vorlon avatar, the lady with the veil and the necklace with the red gem, is yet another form we've seen the Vorlons take. The Shadows taking shapes of Delenn's friends fits because they like messing with minds occasionally.
So ships from almost all races saw Sheridan and Delenn talk with the Vorlons and Shadows on behalf of all of them and later saw the Vorlons and Shadows flee. Wow, Sheridan and Delenn must be held in very high esteem right now. No wonder other ships sacrificed themselves for them.
I'm really not sure what I think of this resolution to the war. It's so quick and - okay no, it wasn't easy, but still. And they had Lorien as the Wise Mentor to help out, while at the same time they said they didn't need guidance anymore. I don't like Wise Mentors in general (Khosh was one, but he was so cryptic as to be nearly useless and then he died), and Lorien mostly seemed like a very convenient plot device.
Sooo... the Shadow War is over. Wow. Just like that. I didn't expect that at all.
Epiphanies: After the last episode the open plot threads that came to mind were Earth, the Psi Corps, and what happened to Garibaldi. And here they are.
Party! They definitely deserve one.
Garibaldi! :( Some sort of sleeper agent activation, like with Talia? But it's strange that he quit, I thought whoever controls him (we still don't know in which way and to what extent) would find his position useful. (Or maybe that's what's left of Garibaldi, trying to minimize the damage he'll be able to cause?) His "wasn't this all about free will" speech, okay, and they sort of owe him a break, but - really? Resigning his position? Garibaldi is paranoid and a control freak, the first time there's a crisis on Babylon 5 and he can't do anything he'll go crazy.
I liked G'Kar and Garibaldi's reunion scene: Garibaldi grateful that G'Kar looked for him, but sorry that he got captured because of it and thinking that G'Kar blames him, but G'Kar is grateful that it eventually led to him getting a position to free Narn.
So Zack had a bad reputation before coming to Babylon 5, but Garibaldi hired him and never regretted it. Sounds like what Sinclair did for Garibaldi :) Nice. Garibaldi says everyone has the right to one big mistake, sounds nice. Whoever brainwashed him was good.
G'Kar and Molari, G'Kar saying he'll ignore Molari, but that won't last.
Bester is here, is dismissive to Lyta, tries to read her - but can't, and finds out the he underestimated her :) Go Lyta. "The Corps is mother, the Corps is father." "I consider myself an orphan." Hah. Although Bester hints that he has something to blackmail her... She's been through enough! I think it's perfectly understandable that she's angry at him, although she overdid it a bit: there are more telepaths than just Bester's girlfriend who need some help. Otoh that technology in anyone's hand would be really dangerous.
Lyta is trying to decorate her room, now that the Vorlon is gone :) And people avoid her because she was associated with the Vorlons. Understandable, but sad. At least Zack makes an effort, nice.
Sheridan figured out Lyta initiated Z'ha'dum blowing up - and he says that if he ever goes over his head again he'll turn her over to the Psi Corps and let them turn her inside out. What the FUCK, Sheridan! You know what the Psi Corps does to people! Say you'll throw her into the brig, whatever (though Lyta correctly pointed out to Allen that they need her), but saying that you'll hand her over to be tortured?! Are you kidding? Lyta deserves better than that.
We got into a discussion about the differences between Sheridan and Sinclair after this episode, because I don't think Sinclair would have said that. They have different backgrounds: Sinclair was a pilot, Sheridan was a commander. Sheridan is better with viewing things abstractly, I think Sinclair would have had a much harder time sending Ericsson on a suicide mission. Sheridan can be remarkably self-centered at times when it comes to emotions. I really disliked him here, and that made me miss Sinclair. I also feel protective of Lyta. (And dammit I still miss Talia.)
Bester says he has an ace in the hole and that he'll hit Babylon 5 where it'll hurt them most. Is he involved in whatever happened to Garibaldi? Definitely possible. I didn't see it coming that he engineered the ambush on the Earth forces that Ivanova thwarted. He probably knows all of Earth's plans, there's no reason for him not to read the generals'/politicians' minds and they can't block him.
The Centauri regent has one of those creepy mind-control creatures on his neck! We're still in the same timeline we saw in "War Without End", dammit. The "servants of the Shadows" that fled Z'ha'dum must be the ones future!Londo was talking about. That and those parasites.
The Illusion of Truth: I knew this was going to be bad. When they started showing the broadcast we stopped twice and I almost wanted to watch through my fingers. Yes, manipulating footage etc. is always possible, but they made it so easy for them! Delenn and Sheridan doing a double interview together was a terrible idea and inappropriate. Saying things like "nothing will stop us", what did they expect? They didn't even ask Lyta to check if the reporter was being truthful when he said he sympathized with Babylon 5. Dangerously naive.
Wow was the broadcast condescending and patronizing toward Sheridan. But as a propaganda tool certainly effective.
An interesting aspect was that Sheridan said they're willing to rejoin Earth as soon as President Clark(e?) rescinds martial law and steps down. They're still thinking short-term. Long-term they'd have to think about how to set up a proper government on Babylon 5, because atm they have an autocracy, though Sheridan wouldn't be happy with that term.
What is up with Garibaldi? That interview he gave, saying that Sheridan is acting erratically and he doesn't trust him, that he fears consequences for saying this - he must have known how that came across. It must be because of whatever is up with his brain. More flashbacks - I hope he'll be okay! He has a lot of friends to help him. Though at the moment many of them will be quite angry at him (Sheridan and Delenn, and a lot disappointed), I bet Ivanova and Franklin have no idea what's going on with him, G'Kar and Lennier won't know how to help and Londo will hope he won't have to. I wonder how aware Garibaldi is of what he's doing and why.
Iirc the broadcast showed the name of Bester's girlfriend on the cryo chamber - is that known, could others in the Psi Corps figure out the connection and that Bester has different interests now? Psi Cops spying against Psi Cops must be tricky.
Thirdspace: Then we watched the second movie. Lyta! Poor Lyta. Apparently the Vorlons' modifications included being implanted (or whatever) with their "race memory" or something, that must be creepy. And apparently this artifact was just one mistake of many the Vorlons made, so she knows it can happen again. Ugh.
I wonder if Zack realizes that Lyta actually doesn't remember what he told her? He should have noticed how out of it she was, but he was a bit nervous.
Sheridan and Delenn deciding that other races can't be involved in figuring out the artifact: stupid and unnecessary. Way to build mistrust and the ideas that the humans and Minbari are having some sort of special alliance that others are not invited to. It wouldn't have been a risk, just appoint observers and a scientific committee, but no.
Archaeologists can be stupid. At least Dr. Trent has the excuse, sort of, that she may have been influenced by that thing. They were just lucky it didn't get Ivanova any worse.
Vir telling Ivanova about his dream with her in it, heh. "What happened to me?" "I wasn't going to mention that part."
"A door can be opened from both sides", thank you,Barton ;) The creatures reminded me of the Discworld Dungeon Dimensions, but the lit-up artifact looked pretty cool.
Sheridan floating toward it with a jet pack was pretty stupid though. Someone could have dropped him off nearby, would be faster and less dangerous. And he's pretty lucky the creatures didn't find and destroy the bomb before the timer went off.
This seemed like the sort of situation where they could really use the machine on Epsilon 3. The First Ones left, but the machine is just technology and should still be there, right? Hopefully.
Sheridan says this is the first time he's seen Ivanova afraid. Maybe just the first time he saw it, but it is a pretty terrifying situation.
Poor Garibaldi. He talks/complains to Zack, that's good, and I wish they showed us more Garibaldi&Ivanova friendship though they're both most likely too busy to catch up much. It's very understandable that he's annoyed that his and Sheridan' inexplicable absences are treated so differently. So then when he's already feeling like Sheridan doesn't trust him and then Sheridan sends him on a mission and says he's aware they don't have a chance, without sufficient explanations, that can't help.
Lyta led the Vorlon into, was that some sort of electric cage? That, plus guns, forced him out of his suit, and then he fights with some sort of energy that comes out of Sheridan, a mix of what's left of Khosh, some of Lorien, and some of Sheridan himself. So Khosh turned against his people? I wonder how aware that little part of him still was. The new Vorlon did say that Khosh had become fond of the younger races, Vorlons aren't all the same.
Sheridan has twenty more years, maybe for him that's not bad, but how long do Minbari live? Maybe for Delenn after sixty years his passing would be no easier. They're engaged now, that's nice.
Cartagia is still crazy. He actively plans to destroy Centauri Prime as a funeral pyre on his way to becoming a god. And he thinks Mollari is very similar to him, heh. Londo can be good at manipulation when he wants to be.
The Long Night: Cartagia is dead! Finally! That was a much quicker and easier death than he deserved. Vir killed him, I kind of liked that, even though for poor Vir it's something new. I liked that the co-conspirators reminded Londo that he's not innocent in putting Cartagia on the throne. (It's a good sign that there are people left who can be co-conspirators.) He was the one to act, no wonder they made him Prime Minister. And he fulfills his promise to G'Kar and moves the Centauri off Narn.
G'Kar freed his planet! The scene where he moved through the masses with the beam on his back, stumbles, and tells his people not to fear, was such an obvious Christian reference. He refuses to become Emperor, good for him, I just hope the Narns who think they need a strong leader and to take revenge on the Centauri aren't the majority.
They're amassing a huge fleet and planning a big battle against the Vorlons - what, already? You just found out about their fleet two episodes ago! They must have skipped a couple of episodes because of the scheduling. Trying to put the Vorlons and Shadows against each directly sounds like a good idea.
Of course Ivanova feels like she needs to be involved, she doesn't need to be protected.
They're sending Ericsson on a suicide mission, knowingly and to his face. War isn't easy.
Into the Fire: Did... they just end the Shadow War? Just like that? Wow, that was fast. I bet originally that was at least a mid-season two-parter with a few more episodes before that. Only three episodes after they found out about the Vorlon fleet it's already gone.
3 billion people on Centauri Prime, 6 billion on Coriana VI. I like how obvious they made it that war is about brutal numbers sometimes.
I don't care that Sheridan and Delenn want to be in the middle of the action, you don't send both of them in the same ship to the front line for skirmishes. For the last battle, okay, they needed to be close so Lyta could reach the Vorlons, but still.
Londo got the Shadows off Centauri Prime! By blowing up an island and a few Centauri volunteers. I'm glad he found out that Morden killed Adira and the extent to which he was played. Conveniently he found out while Morden was still alive. And then, as a gift from Londo, Vir gets to experience his wish of waving to Morden's head on a pike *g*
Londo even asks Vir to kill him so that the Vorlons don't destroy Centauri Prime because of him. (They might just have done it as a warning to other worlds anyway.) Characters asking other characters to kill them pushes many of my h/c buttons, so I enjoyed that.
When the White Star attacked both the Vorlons and the Shadows I was very surprised, because wasn't the original plan to let them fight each other? Apparently not, the plan was to talk to them and try to make them stop. I bet they didn't tell their Allies that (I wonder what they thought about that later...)
I'm relieved that they brought more First Ones. Every time they talked about finding them I was annoyed because I thought they forgot that Susan and Marcus already found one race. AV said that in a fusion, the Doctor would be one of the First Ones, and I agree. A meddler.
Sheridan and Delenn planned for their conversations on the spirit plane (?) to be broadcast to the rest of the fleet (Lorien), so they were expecting that. Lorien must have told them that, I assume? And helped them out with figuring out what the Vorlons and Shadows originally wanted. The Vorlon avatar, the lady with the veil and the necklace with the red gem, is yet another form we've seen the Vorlons take. The Shadows taking shapes of Delenn's friends fits because they like messing with minds occasionally.
So ships from almost all races saw Sheridan and Delenn talk with the Vorlons and Shadows on behalf of all of them and later saw the Vorlons and Shadows flee. Wow, Sheridan and Delenn must be held in very high esteem right now. No wonder other ships sacrificed themselves for them.
I'm really not sure what I think of this resolution to the war. It's so quick and - okay no, it wasn't easy, but still. And they had Lorien as the Wise Mentor to help out, while at the same time they said they didn't need guidance anymore. I don't like Wise Mentors in general (Khosh was one, but he was so cryptic as to be nearly useless and then he died), and Lorien mostly seemed like a very convenient plot device.
Sooo... the Shadow War is over. Wow. Just like that. I didn't expect that at all.
Epiphanies: After the last episode the open plot threads that came to mind were Earth, the Psi Corps, and what happened to Garibaldi. And here they are.
Party! They definitely deserve one.
Garibaldi! :( Some sort of sleeper agent activation, like with Talia? But it's strange that he quit, I thought whoever controls him (we still don't know in which way and to what extent) would find his position useful. (Or maybe that's what's left of Garibaldi, trying to minimize the damage he'll be able to cause?) His "wasn't this all about free will" speech, okay, and they sort of owe him a break, but - really? Resigning his position? Garibaldi is paranoid and a control freak, the first time there's a crisis on Babylon 5 and he can't do anything he'll go crazy.
I liked G'Kar and Garibaldi's reunion scene: Garibaldi grateful that G'Kar looked for him, but sorry that he got captured because of it and thinking that G'Kar blames him, but G'Kar is grateful that it eventually led to him getting a position to free Narn.
So Zack had a bad reputation before coming to Babylon 5, but Garibaldi hired him and never regretted it. Sounds like what Sinclair did for Garibaldi :) Nice. Garibaldi says everyone has the right to one big mistake, sounds nice. Whoever brainwashed him was good.
G'Kar and Molari, G'Kar saying he'll ignore Molari, but that won't last.
Bester is here, is dismissive to Lyta, tries to read her - but can't, and finds out the he underestimated her :) Go Lyta. "The Corps is mother, the Corps is father." "I consider myself an orphan." Hah. Although Bester hints that he has something to blackmail her... She's been through enough! I think it's perfectly understandable that she's angry at him, although she overdid it a bit: there are more telepaths than just Bester's girlfriend who need some help. Otoh that technology in anyone's hand would be really dangerous.
Lyta is trying to decorate her room, now that the Vorlon is gone :) And people avoid her because she was associated with the Vorlons. Understandable, but sad. At least Zack makes an effort, nice.
Sheridan figured out Lyta initiated Z'ha'dum blowing up - and he says that if he ever goes over his head again he'll turn her over to the Psi Corps and let them turn her inside out. What the FUCK, Sheridan! You know what the Psi Corps does to people! Say you'll throw her into the brig, whatever (though Lyta correctly pointed out to Allen that they need her), but saying that you'll hand her over to be tortured?! Are you kidding? Lyta deserves better than that.
We got into a discussion about the differences between Sheridan and Sinclair after this episode, because I don't think Sinclair would have said that. They have different backgrounds: Sinclair was a pilot, Sheridan was a commander. Sheridan is better with viewing things abstractly, I think Sinclair would have had a much harder time sending Ericsson on a suicide mission. Sheridan can be remarkably self-centered at times when it comes to emotions. I really disliked him here, and that made me miss Sinclair. I also feel protective of Lyta. (And dammit I still miss Talia.)
Bester says he has an ace in the hole and that he'll hit Babylon 5 where it'll hurt them most. Is he involved in whatever happened to Garibaldi? Definitely possible. I didn't see it coming that he engineered the ambush on the Earth forces that Ivanova thwarted. He probably knows all of Earth's plans, there's no reason for him not to read the generals'/politicians' minds and they can't block him.
The Centauri regent has one of those creepy mind-control creatures on his neck! We're still in the same timeline we saw in "War Without End", dammit. The "servants of the Shadows" that fled Z'ha'dum must be the ones future!Londo was talking about. That and those parasites.
The Illusion of Truth: I knew this was going to be bad. When they started showing the broadcast we stopped twice and I almost wanted to watch through my fingers. Yes, manipulating footage etc. is always possible, but they made it so easy for them! Delenn and Sheridan doing a double interview together was a terrible idea and inappropriate. Saying things like "nothing will stop us", what did they expect? They didn't even ask Lyta to check if the reporter was being truthful when he said he sympathized with Babylon 5. Dangerously naive.
Wow was the broadcast condescending and patronizing toward Sheridan. But as a propaganda tool certainly effective.
An interesting aspect was that Sheridan said they're willing to rejoin Earth as soon as President Clark(e?) rescinds martial law and steps down. They're still thinking short-term. Long-term they'd have to think about how to set up a proper government on Babylon 5, because atm they have an autocracy, though Sheridan wouldn't be happy with that term.
What is up with Garibaldi? That interview he gave, saying that Sheridan is acting erratically and he doesn't trust him, that he fears consequences for saying this - he must have known how that came across. It must be because of whatever is up with his brain. More flashbacks - I hope he'll be okay! He has a lot of friends to help him. Though at the moment many of them will be quite angry at him (Sheridan and Delenn, and a lot disappointed), I bet Ivanova and Franklin have no idea what's going on with him, G'Kar and Lennier won't know how to help and Londo will hope he won't have to. I wonder how aware Garibaldi is of what he's doing and why.
Iirc the broadcast showed the name of Bester's girlfriend on the cryo chamber - is that known, could others in the Psi Corps figure out the connection and that Bester has different interests now? Psi Cops spying against Psi Cops must be tricky.
Thirdspace: Then we watched the second movie. Lyta! Poor Lyta. Apparently the Vorlons' modifications included being implanted (or whatever) with their "race memory" or something, that must be creepy. And apparently this artifact was just one mistake of many the Vorlons made, so she knows it can happen again. Ugh.
I wonder if Zack realizes that Lyta actually doesn't remember what he told her? He should have noticed how out of it she was, but he was a bit nervous.
Sheridan and Delenn deciding that other races can't be involved in figuring out the artifact: stupid and unnecessary. Way to build mistrust and the ideas that the humans and Minbari are having some sort of special alliance that others are not invited to. It wouldn't have been a risk, just appoint observers and a scientific committee, but no.
Archaeologists can be stupid. At least Dr. Trent has the excuse, sort of, that she may have been influenced by that thing. They were just lucky it didn't get Ivanova any worse.
Vir telling Ivanova about his dream with her in it, heh. "What happened to me?" "I wasn't going to mention that part."
"A door can be opened from both sides", thank you,Barton ;) The creatures reminded me of the Discworld Dungeon Dimensions, but the lit-up artifact looked pretty cool.
Sheridan floating toward it with a jet pack was pretty stupid though. Someone could have dropped him off nearby, would be faster and less dangerous. And he's pretty lucky the creatures didn't find and destroy the bomb before the timer went off.
This seemed like the sort of situation where they could really use the machine on Epsilon 3. The First Ones left, but the machine is just technology and should still be there, right? Hopefully.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-28 10:30 pm (UTC)I always wished Lyta and Zack could have gotten together, he was so sweet and God knows she needed someone in her corner to just love her and respect her.
This isn't the first instance of Sheridan mishandling the teep situation, and it won't be the last. Lyta in particular gets such a bad deal--I think Sheridan's prejudiced against them, he doesn't treat anyone else like he does them.
And, yes, the timeline hasn't changed. Alas.
no subject
Date: 2015-03-01 10:53 am (UTC)I'll have to rewatch, but I didn't remember Sheridan showing more dislike towards telepaths than anyone else, and I don't know why he'd dislike Lyta personally. I don't remember him having any special reason to hate telepaths, unlike Ivanova. Even Susan stopped disliking Talia. So Talia had at least Susan to support her, Lyta doesn't have that.