Asking for Iliad spoilers
Aug. 21st, 2021 08:34 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
schneefinkI knew that some people listen to other things while playing games, but I never did because I needed to concentrate on the game. Then recently I realized that actually, after more than 300 hours I'm good enough at Hades now that I have enough brainspace left to listen to something else. (At least when playing on low heat, which I mostly do atm.) But what to listen to? Then I had the great idea to listen to The Hades Community Iliad Reading, which fits perfectly. Various Hades community members reading chapters of the Iliad, with a foreword by Hades writer Greg Kasavin, a very cool project.
So far I've listened to the first twelve books. I've read a retelling of the Iliad before, but that was many years ago. I remembered the main points, but of course there was a lot that I forgot, or that never made it into the retelling in the first place.
- I remembered that Achilles stopped fighting when Agamemnon took Briseis, but I did not remember that Achilles asked Thetis to ask Zeus to give the Trojans victory so the Achaeans would realize how much they needed Achilles. Ouch.
- I didn't know that Thetis rescued Zeus when Hera, Poseidon and Athena tried to chain him (and that's why he was more inclined to listen to her), now I want the story of that rebellion.
- I'd forgotten just how disdainful seemingly everyone was of Paris, from Hector to Helen. (The common soldiers must have hated him even more. Kind of a surprise he never had an "accident.")
- I also forgot about Zeus telling Ares that he hates him most of all the gods. Ouch.
- Hector telling Andromache he does not want her to be taken as a slave by one of the Argives…
- Of course everything is repeated, this was meant to be told over a feast or something. (Also not inconvenient when listening while playing a game, though I still missed details every once in a while.)
- Agamemnon took Briseis from Achilles to humiliate him and then didn't even bed her, no really, he swears. Not sure if that makes sense or is funny.
- So Achilles loved Briseis very much, in his own words, but his injured pride is more important than getting her back, and he even tells Agamemnon that he can take her to bed, psh. (He has a point that every man hates it when his wife is taken and yet there is a ten year war fought for Menelaos'.)
- Achilles will make his wife whoever he wants – doesn't he already have one? (Also, iirc, Achilles at first made it sound like there was something Agamemnon could do to appease him, but then later didn't mention it… Might have to listen to that section again, or read it.)
- "No wealth is worth my life" – I mean, true, but…
- "All this for a girl, just one, and here we offer you seven" – uuuh, ten year war for Helen…
- Patroclus visiting Nestor (sent by Achilles to inquire about one guy) and Nestor convincing him to at least fight himself, pretending to be Achilles, if he can't persuade Achilles himself. Nestor is good at what he does.
- I remembered that the gods interfered a lot but not how much. Wow. It seems like everything humans do is either only possible because of the gods, or because the gods specifically chose not to interfere. It really makes the whole war seem like the playground of overemotional deities, which makes it tragic but in a less heroic way.
I recently started chapter 13, "Battling for the Ships," but all the fighting is less interesting. I want less action, more narrative ^^ Unfortunately, the chapter titles for the next few chapters make it sound like there will be mostly more fighting. I don't want to read ahead because I like rediscovering things; so I'd appreciate hints when there will be strong narrative threads again.
So far I've listened to the first twelve books. I've read a retelling of the Iliad before, but that was many years ago. I remembered the main points, but of course there was a lot that I forgot, or that never made it into the retelling in the first place.
- I remembered that Achilles stopped fighting when Agamemnon took Briseis, but I did not remember that Achilles asked Thetis to ask Zeus to give the Trojans victory so the Achaeans would realize how much they needed Achilles. Ouch.
- I didn't know that Thetis rescued Zeus when Hera, Poseidon and Athena tried to chain him (and that's why he was more inclined to listen to her), now I want the story of that rebellion.
- I'd forgotten just how disdainful seemingly everyone was of Paris, from Hector to Helen. (The common soldiers must have hated him even more. Kind of a surprise he never had an "accident.")
- I also forgot about Zeus telling Ares that he hates him most of all the gods. Ouch.
- Hector telling Andromache he does not want her to be taken as a slave by one of the Argives…
- Of course everything is repeated, this was meant to be told over a feast or something. (Also not inconvenient when listening while playing a game, though I still missed details every once in a while.)
- Agamemnon took Briseis from Achilles to humiliate him and then didn't even bed her, no really, he swears. Not sure if that makes sense or is funny.
- So Achilles loved Briseis very much, in his own words, but his injured pride is more important than getting her back, and he even tells Agamemnon that he can take her to bed, psh. (He has a point that every man hates it when his wife is taken and yet there is a ten year war fought for Menelaos'.)
- Achilles will make his wife whoever he wants – doesn't he already have one? (Also, iirc, Achilles at first made it sound like there was something Agamemnon could do to appease him, but then later didn't mention it… Might have to listen to that section again, or read it.)
- "No wealth is worth my life" – I mean, true, but…
- "All this for a girl, just one, and here we offer you seven" – uuuh, ten year war for Helen…
- Patroclus visiting Nestor (sent by Achilles to inquire about one guy) and Nestor convincing him to at least fight himself, pretending to be Achilles, if he can't persuade Achilles himself. Nestor is good at what he does.
- I remembered that the gods interfered a lot but not how much. Wow. It seems like everything humans do is either only possible because of the gods, or because the gods specifically chose not to interfere. It really makes the whole war seem like the playground of overemotional deities, which makes it tragic but in a less heroic way.
I recently started chapter 13, "Battling for the Ships," but all the fighting is less interesting. I want less action, more narrative ^^ Unfortunately, the chapter titles for the next few chapters make it sound like there will be mostly more fighting. I don't want to read ahead because I like rediscovering things; so I'd appreciate hints when there will be strong narrative threads again.
no subject
Date: 2021-08-22 12:32 am (UTC)Oh good, I have my appropriate icon!
no subject
Date: 2021-08-22 01:45 pm (UTC)I tend to pay less attention during battle scenes and then I'm worried that I miss it when plot starts to happen again.
no subject
Date: 2021-09-01 10:23 am (UTC)The points about Helen vs. any other woman and the misogyny are real. I approve of dissing Paris for this shit, because he is the human at fault. For an explanation of why Briseis doesn't move the needle I can only think of "Helen" the unit and where she might rank. Maybe in the microhelen range of motorboat & starting a grass fire?
I feel like I am probably just rehashing familiar information, but yay repetition and other poetic devices! \o/ Afaik such a long epic was probably meant for multiple nights, so it's for the benefit of the listeners, true, but also benefits the people reciting. Formulaic phrases and even stock descriptions (e.g. some adjectives/epithets that are almost exclusively bound to a person) make memorising easier. If they start such a phrase, it just keeps going naturally - this and things like rhyming, alliteration and meter give parameters to a line so less and less options to finish it. I just love ancient and epic poetry and narratives.
The godly interference is real! I forget what it was, but I'm sure there were more inciting incidences from the gods aside from the apples. I really want to do a proper refresher on all things Iliad, so thanks again for the rec.
no subject
Date: 2021-09-04 08:51 pm (UTC)Good point about stock phrases, e.g. the descriptions of gods that are pretty much always the same, helping with memorization. The Iliad is so long it must have been told over multiple nights.
You're welcome :)