(Space) Politics in canon
Sep. 17th, 2014 11:45 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
schneefinkI went running today! Because in the morning I signed up for a hockey class that starts in November and I have to get in shape. People who know me IRL were laughing at me. It's going to be great.
What I thought about during running: Space politics!
One of my favorite things about the Vorkosigan books are the politics. Politics everywhere, annoying and exhausting and complicated and sometimes corrupt, but necessary and important.
Then I looked back and realized that politics were also a big part of the reason why I enjoyed Gundam Wing and Gundam Seed so much. Space politics! \o/
I was trying to think of other series/books/movies with politics and I realized that even though many contain politics of some kind, it often doesn't feel like it. Often politics are very far in the background and treated mostly like an external force, e.g. Harry Potter or SG-1. Or it's something the main characters explicitly have no interest in, e.g. many Discworld books. Or canon concentrates on who has the better claim to the throne (Lord of the Rings), or everything is framed as conspiracies and power struggles removed from any actual government (Tales of the Otori, Dresden Files.) Or the politicians are the bad guys in the background that the protagonist has to fight somehow (Hunger Games.)
I'm currently starting to watch Babylon 5: the entire premise is about interplanetary diplomacy and politics. Still, during the first few episodes it felt more like a conflict between the ambassadors than between their nations. I'm hoping that will change. I was excited about the hints that Earth politics might play a role later when they mentioned the elections. Looking forward to seeing how it develops.
So what does it take for me to feel like a canon is in some ways "about" politics, or that politics play a major role?
First I should probably define "politics": Wikipedia says it is "the practice and theory of influencing other people on a global, civic or individual level. More narrowly, it refers to achieving and exercising positions of governance — organized control over a human community, particularly a state. Furthermore, politics is the study or practice of the distribution of power and resources within a given community (a hierarchically organized population) as well as the interrelationship(s) between communities." I was mostly thinking of the second meaning.
Some thoughts:
a) Politics have a strong influence on events.
a.2) Events have a strong influence on politics.
b) Politics are the reason why characters act, not just the reason that characters are made/forced to act.
c) We get to see at least parts of the political process, and if necessary explanations why it works the way it does and the ideas behind it.
c.2) Some politicians are not-completely-minor characters.
d) The connection between politics and actual governing is shown.
d.2) Bureaucracy is a plus.
Examples:
Marvel's Civil War has a little of a and b, almost none of c, and has d. The storyline had the potential, but was mostly about the fight between two conflicting ideas and only cared about politics as the way to bring that about.
The X-Men movies have great potential, but also mostly fail at c. (And the argumentation is often simplistic and the politicians are shown as idiots.)
Star Wars I-III is an interesting case: they tried to include politics, but imo didn't do it very well, because the viewers' viewpoint characters were the Jedi, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and Anakin. If it had been more centered on Padmé it would have been completely different, but they cut a lot of her scenes, so a lot of the politics seem like external events and most of the characters fail b. (Maybe that's even how to explain b, because I'm not sure it's clear: Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan don't go to Naboo because of the Trade Federation's blockade, they go to Naboo because the Jedi Order tells them to.)
In contrast, Gundam Wing meets all of the criteria, and from what I remember Gundam Seed does too. The Vorkosigan books too when taken as a whole, some more and some less.
(Btw, the one show that I remember watching that was about politics in this world, Borgen, unsurprisingly meets all the criteria, but I stopped because it was very realistic and therefore frustrating, and because I wasn't sure there'd be a happy ending and didn't want to watch anything sad.)
So: space politics! Or fantasy politics! Thoughts? Recs?
(I think after Babylon 5 I might try another Gundam series next, but I'm not yet sure which one.)
What I thought about during running: Space politics!
One of my favorite things about the Vorkosigan books are the politics. Politics everywhere, annoying and exhausting and complicated and sometimes corrupt, but necessary and important.
Then I looked back and realized that politics were also a big part of the reason why I enjoyed Gundam Wing and Gundam Seed so much. Space politics! \o/
I was trying to think of other series/books/movies with politics and I realized that even though many contain politics of some kind, it often doesn't feel like it. Often politics are very far in the background and treated mostly like an external force, e.g. Harry Potter or SG-1. Or it's something the main characters explicitly have no interest in, e.g. many Discworld books. Or canon concentrates on who has the better claim to the throne (Lord of the Rings), or everything is framed as conspiracies and power struggles removed from any actual government (Tales of the Otori, Dresden Files.) Or the politicians are the bad guys in the background that the protagonist has to fight somehow (Hunger Games.)
I'm currently starting to watch Babylon 5: the entire premise is about interplanetary diplomacy and politics. Still, during the first few episodes it felt more like a conflict between the ambassadors than between their nations. I'm hoping that will change. I was excited about the hints that Earth politics might play a role later when they mentioned the elections. Looking forward to seeing how it develops.
So what does it take for me to feel like a canon is in some ways "about" politics, or that politics play a major role?
First I should probably define "politics": Wikipedia says it is "the practice and theory of influencing other people on a global, civic or individual level. More narrowly, it refers to achieving and exercising positions of governance — organized control over a human community, particularly a state. Furthermore, politics is the study or practice of the distribution of power and resources within a given community (a hierarchically organized population) as well as the interrelationship(s) between communities." I was mostly thinking of the second meaning.
Some thoughts:
a) Politics have a strong influence on events.
a.2) Events have a strong influence on politics.
b) Politics are the reason why characters act, not just the reason that characters are made/forced to act.
c) We get to see at least parts of the political process, and if necessary explanations why it works the way it does and the ideas behind it.
c.2) Some politicians are not-completely-minor characters.
d) The connection between politics and actual governing is shown.
d.2) Bureaucracy is a plus.
Examples:
Marvel's Civil War has a little of a and b, almost none of c, and has d. The storyline had the potential, but was mostly about the fight between two conflicting ideas and only cared about politics as the way to bring that about.
The X-Men movies have great potential, but also mostly fail at c. (And the argumentation is often simplistic and the politicians are shown as idiots.)
Star Wars I-III is an interesting case: they tried to include politics, but imo didn't do it very well, because the viewers' viewpoint characters were the Jedi, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and Anakin. If it had been more centered on Padmé it would have been completely different, but they cut a lot of her scenes, so a lot of the politics seem like external events and most of the characters fail b. (Maybe that's even how to explain b, because I'm not sure it's clear: Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan don't go to Naboo because of the Trade Federation's blockade, they go to Naboo because the Jedi Order tells them to.)
In contrast, Gundam Wing meets all of the criteria, and from what I remember Gundam Seed does too. The Vorkosigan books too when taken as a whole, some more and some less.
(Btw, the one show that I remember watching that was about politics in this world, Borgen, unsurprisingly meets all the criteria, but I stopped because it was very realistic and therefore frustrating, and because I wasn't sure there'd be a happy ending and didn't want to watch anything sad.)
So: space politics! Or fantasy politics! Thoughts? Recs?
(I think after Babylon 5 I might try another Gundam series next, but I'm not yet sure which one.)
no subject
Date: 2014-09-17 06:29 pm (UTC)The whole thing is politics and conflict between civilian politicians and the military in wartime and other civilian factors including faith-politics and it's AWESOME. Two of the main characters are the president Laura Roslin and the military chief William Adama and they drive the plot and there's also the Cylon war-politics and internal politics and I just love this show SO MUCH. Also it gives every point on your list an absolutely massive tick.
(Go in completely spoiler-free. Also it actually starts with a miniseries and then there's season 1, jsyk.)
no subject
Date: 2014-09-17 06:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-09-17 06:41 pm (UTC)Ancillary Justice sounds good, I put it on my list.
no subject
Date: 2014-09-17 06:42 pm (UTC)I think the obvious rec is A Song of Ice and Fire. It's less obvious in the first book, which is more focused on individuals and their motivations, but as the series progresses you get more pieces of the political process and its effects on the governed (I'm thinking of the scenes with the council, the role the church starts to play, and the reactions of the peasants as conditions steadily worsen, and then of course Dany's entire plotline on the other side of the world). The longer the series goes the muddier things get, as factions splinter based on who did what to whom books ago. However, I sort of figure anyone who was interested in reading the series did so ages ago.
On a much shorter and less epic level, possibly K.J. Parker's Purple and Black? It's an epistolary novella that contains the correspondence between an emperor, who is dealing with tax policy and treaties and civil strife, and his best friend and general, who is trying to quell a distant rebellion. Neither of them wanted their jobs, and both of them are in over their heads, but they're trying their best. Whether they're directing those efforts at the right problems may be in question.
no subject
Date: 2014-09-17 06:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-09-17 06:49 pm (UTC)I tried reading A Song of Ice and Fire, but it spent sooo many pages on characters I had absolutely no interest in or on storylines that promised a resolution only after at least five more books that I gave up. It's a shame, as I love "person having to learn how to govern." For that reason I loved the subplot of the Eragon books with Nasuada becoming chief of the Varden.
That sounds like an interesting book, thanks!
no subject
Date: 2014-09-17 06:51 pm (UTC)(I love your icon, btw!)
no subject
Date: 2014-09-17 07:02 pm (UTC)FWIW, BSG is one of my very favourite TV shows of all time :)
no subject
Date: 2014-09-17 07:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-09-17 09:50 pm (UTC)Aber was Anderes: Du siehst Babylon 5 das erste Mal?! =DDD Oh, wie ich dich beneide...
no subject
Date: 2014-09-18 09:46 am (UTC)Ich hab vor ein paar Monaten ein paar Folgen gesehen, aber dann wegen Koordinationsproblemen und dann den Ferien lange nicht mehr, also konnte ich mich sowieso nicht mehr dran erinnern, was passiert. Ich hab sehr viel Gutes drüber gehört, bin also sehr gespannt!
(Andererseits könnte genau das das Problem sein: Ich hab so viel Lob für Firefly und Farscape gehört, dass ich dann enttäuscht war. Aber bisher schaut Babylon 5 gut aus.)
no subject
Date: 2014-09-19 06:57 pm (UTC)Also, Game of Thrones, obviously! I tried & failed to read the books, but I really love what they've done with the show. Sooo many politics and family feuds and stuff! And absolutely badass child actors and actresses.
It's so interesting to me to read your view of politics in Star Wars, because I somehow got a really different impression? I felt like politics were really present particularly in the prequel trilogy, to the point that my 13-year-old self got a little bored when I first watched them. xD But then again, I admit I'm quite biased, because although they have so, so many weaknesses to poke at, I rather enjoyed the prequels as a whole. I think they did an overall good job with the politics especially in episode III, when that aspect played such a big role in Anakin's fall even though he himself wasn't a politician. ... Oh man, now I really want to marathon all Star Wars episodes again. :D
(Speaking of Star Wars, have you seen the 5-second summaries by ThatGuyWithTheGlasses? I give this link to every Star Wars fan I meet because it's the greatest thing on the Internet. Don't try to drink anything while watching, because it'll probably end up on your screen :D)
no subject
Date: 2014-09-19 07:30 pm (UTC)I couldn't get into Game of Thrones. Even if one day I could I'd better wait until the series is finished because Martin writes so slowly, it must be extremely frustrating for fans.
The Star Wars prequels did have a lot of politics, but they didn't do much with it, it seemed to me. Imo they didn't succeed in making the politics aspect of it interesting as more than a background plot device. Now that I think about it that's not quite true: the vote of no confidence against Valorum was actually important, Jar-Jar as senator was cool, Palpatine needed to be in position to command the clones... I'd probably have to rewatch them. It might also be that when I watched them I was younger and much more interested in the Jedi parts ;)
no subject
Date: 2014-09-19 08:18 pm (UTC)My main problem with GoT is that I'm constantly scared of my favorite characters being killed off in the books that are yet to come. I'll always remember that photo from ComicCon (or some other big convention) where George R.R. Martin walked around with a sign around his neck that read, "Be nice to me or Tyrion is next!" xD
I also kind of thought that Jar-Jar as a senator was cool! Annoying at times, yes, but also cool. It certainly made me see him in a somewhat different light. I'll definitely have to watch the Senate scenes more closely the next time. (Which will be soon, I'm already excited since it's been such a long time since my last rewatch.) And yes, the Jedi parts were great! :)
no subject
Date: 2014-09-20 09:40 am (UTC)"Joss Whedon, George R.R. Martin, and Steve Moffat walk into a bar together. All your favorite characters die. (Steven Moffat resurrects them before within a half hour, Joss Whedon begrudgingly agrees but blogs about how it wasn't his idea and it was planned that way before he was given creative control. Martin kills Whedon and Moffat because he can.)"
The Jedi Order doesn't really make much sense the way it's presented in the prequel movies - but whatever, light sabres are cool ;)