schneefink

We spent about an hour past midnight at the last D&D session trying to come up with a solution for the scenario below. Usually I wouldn't involve people from outside our party, but in this case the DM already admitted that he planned for this situation to be unsolvable, so I think asking for brainstorming help just in case there is a solution after all is fine in this one case.

Context: There's an organization called the Citadel. They have many powerful mages and they specialize in fighting with animated constructs. They're regularly fighting against the gods and have killed two of them in the past. One frustrating thing is that we don't know – apparently nobody knows – what the Citadel's exact end goal is, which makes them unpredictable.

There's another organization called the Protectors. They consist of the remains of the armies/organization of the two dead gods as well as additional volunteers, and they're led by our time-travelling gold dragon were-scorpion paladin NPC friend, the Lady Rose. The Protectors fight against the Citadel, but they're not on the best terms with some of the other gods, probably because the gods consider them to be too powerful (but we don't know details yet.) Our party is currently in one of the Protectors' headquarters.

Constructs of the Citadel have infiltrated a city of 100,000 mostly humans on the continent of the god Heironeous. In one night they killed all the commanders and leaders, closed the city walls and said they would kill anyone who tries to leave. The civilian population is terrified: the constructs are among them and could be anyone. Past experience with the constructs' style suggests that there are probably around a hundred of them in the city.

Heironeous, having fought against the constructs in the past and almost lost, is paranoid and wants to destroy all the constructs at all costs. He doesn't trust any other method to work, so he wants to destroy the whole city. What he needs for the ritual is currently on its way to him and will arrive in 5-6 days. This is the time we have to eliminate the constructs so the destruction of the city is unnecessary. (We also considered bribing him, but the one thing we could think of that would almost certainly work – a duel with the leader of the Citadel – we almost certainly can't deliver.)
(The question the DM planned for us to answer is whether or not we want to help attack the transport for the important ingredient for the destruction ritual. I understand the impulse but it seems like a huge risk, very questionable reward plan.)

The constructs have assumed the appearance of random citizens via a ritual using their dead bodies (and then destroyed the bodies.) Their skin and blood are indistinguishable from those of humans, but their fake inner organs decay rapidly when laid open; however, cutting people open to the necessary degree kills them without medical attention and this is therefore not a large-scale option. Detect Magic doesn't find them because the skin is a sufficient barrier. Everyone in the city is acting suspiciously because everyone is scared out of their mind. As far as we know the constructs are only physically superior to normal humans and don't have any magical abilities, but we're not certain. They don't need to eat or breathe, but fake it. Experience says that when they feel like they're in danger of being discovered they start killing the townspeople at random.

The Protectors would like to save the town, but they're forbidden to officially act on Heironeous' continent and it's likely that that would lead to war. Which would be bad. However, our party (~7 people) can act because we're sorta-independent outsiders. The Protectors would share any resources with us. They don't have many powerful mages, but they have alchemists and kobold Gundams.

Advantages our party has: long story short, we look like Heironeous' highest representatives and for that reason the citizens are likely to do what we say when they see us. However the town is pretty big and to get a message to all of them we'd have to, idk, write something on the sky, I'm pretty sure they don't have radio.
Disadvantages we have: we're currently on another continent and nobody can cast Greater Teleport, so we're stuck waiting for an airship and it'll likely take 3-4 days until we even arrive at the city.

Right now my best idea is that even if the constructs start killing the townspeople, even if they kill 10,000, that's still better than the alternative. So if there is a way to reliably identify the constructs, or get them to identify themselves, eventually the constructs will be killed by the townspeople. If we put a flavorless (to avoid detection) potion in the water that acts only after, say, a day, works via internal organs and doesn't incapacitate people but gives them some kind of visible marker, that would identify (most of) the townspeople and you'd just have to test whoever is left. Could the alchemists make a potion that works on delay and turns people's skin or hair different colors? If they don't know one, could they develop it quickly enough and in sufficient quantities? I don't know the odds for these, I don't think they're that good.
Or is there another option I'm overlooking?

I think these were the important details. Ideas welcome :)

This was my procrastination for the day (instead of the official session summary that I should be doing.) I also made very good chocolate muffins, and tomorrow I plan to make a banana topping and introduce myself with cupcakes to the neighbours that I don't know yet despite living in this house for a year and a half. Somehow I never got around to it.

Crossposts: http://schneefink.livejournal.com/189761.html

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

naye

How are the constructs at imitating the people they impersonate? Do they get any of the memories/personality along with the body?

Also relevant: how easy is it to kill a construct? Could a desperate person with a kitchen knife manage, or do you have to be a highly trained fighter?

I don't suppose there's any handy-dandy construct-killing magic lying around that you could get into the town, is there?

Hmm.

From:

schneefink

We don't know, unfortunately. They have to have some skill at impersonation otherwise they would have been found out immediately, so I assume at least surface memories.

As for how easy it is to kill them, the way I understood it is that they're highly trained fighters, so an ordinary citizen with a kitchen knife would have very bad odds.

Not that we know of! That would be suspiciously convenient.

From:

naye

Ahhh, so tricky! I really hope you come up with a good solution...

From:

darjeeling

Time magic? Or specifically, aging magic?

If the constructs are assuming the appearance of the citizens based on their current outward physical looks, but their internals don't function the same way as a human's does, then they wouldn't age normally. Apply an aging spell to groups of citizens, say something like... 5-10 years, anyone who still looks exactly the same is a construct.

If the spell can be reversed after the fact, even better, but even if not, losing 5 years off your life is better than the much more immediately-dead option.

From:

eleanorjane

OH CLEVER. I like it.

From:

schneefink

It came up in a different context, but unfortunately there is no aging magic in this world (as far as anyone knows.) It would be a clever solution though.

From:

darjeeling

What about something like a truth compulsion spell?

From:

schneefink

I'm not sure if they would work on the constructs (though the Protectors should probably know by now?, if I understand correctly they've been fighting them for years), but if they do that might be a good plan! I'll definitely ask, fingers crossed it would work.

From:

darjeeling

Hmm... good point. Although if the constructs are able to act independently of whomever at the Citadel created that specific construct, then they demonstrate at least a modicum of free will, even if they're following orders of their creators. So truth spells should affect, if that was the case.

It's a fun problem though! Kudos to your GM for building this one :D

From:

schneefink

Hm, the world definitely isn't technologically advanced enough for cyborgs so the constructs must run on magic, but can you use magic to "program" a construct sufficiently for a task like this without giving it free will? It seems unlikely because an infiltration job like that must require a lot of improvisation. So truth spells would probably work.
Does that necessarily mean the same for truth potions? At which point does the magic inherent in a potion take effect?

It is fun! I've never played with another DM so I can't compare, but he keeps coming up with good stuff :)

From:

eleanorjane

That's tricky!

Is there anything more ... ineffable ... about the constructs that sets them apart? e.g. do prayers from them smell different to the gods, since they're not people? (Alternatively, if they *are* people, can you sway or mind-control them?)

Can you find something else the Citadel wants more or cares about more, and either offer it to them, or hold it to ransom?

Can you find how the constructs receive instructions, and insert your own orders into the message chain?

Could you have just a simple "everyone quizzes the person they know best, in detail,about their history to identify if they're an imposter?" buddy system setup? Won't work if the constructs get all the imitated person's memories or are flawless at impersonation.

Heironeous is the immediate obstacle - can you have one of the Protectors' divine friends try to negotiate with him? Do the gods, in general, have spiritual information or resources they can draw on?

(My GM housemate suggests: do contructs have alignment? Would Know Alignment help?)

Could your wizard develop or get access to some kind of functional detection spell, like a simple "Detect Construct"? Are there any other detection spells that would be applicable to sort the constructs from the people?

Is there anything that would cause (only) the fake organs to break down that you could get into the water supply?

Those are some thoughts, anyway. :)

From:

alatefeline

Reminds me of a similar problem with demons imitating people via dead bodies in Michelle West's writing. People had to put on a magical ring which burned or exploded if demonic magic was present to get into a secure area, and then keep the ring on so they couldn't be replaced; that's how they solved it, but then places outside the secure area *weren't* and also some innocent people looked suspicious because they also set off the rings. (Also reminds me of The Thing, the original short story.) It sounds like a ring wouldn't work since the magic is explicitly confined to inside the skin, but what about a token placed under the tongue, like in a Catholic mass or a sacred mouth stone thing - does in the mouth count as internal for these purposes? There is also an African tradition of using a mild poison that induces vomiting to identify evil magicworkers because, in theory, they won't be harmed by something that shares their evil. So there are real-world-mythic and fantasy examples you can draw on for ideas. I bet that if it was that or *die* you could get everyone in a neighborhood to, say, eat a hard candy that would dissolve or react differently in human and inhuman guts - but you'd need an example to figure out the differences and a way to make the result visible...

From:

schneefink

Hm, a potion that would only get people to vomit might work, depending on how the constructs are built internally that might be hard for them to fake.

I also really like the idea of tokens. Even if you have to put it under the skin, most townspeople would probably be willing to cut their arm. If we have enough tokens and people will distribute them themselves... I'll definitely ask about that :)

From:

alatefeline

Good luck!

From:

schneefink

Thanks!

From:

schneefink

Great questions!

If the gods could easily detect them I assume they would have done so by now. We know far too little about how the gods "work", since in the timeline our party comes from they were all dead. I'm not sure what the other gods' stance is, but I'll definitely ask!

We also know far too little about how the constructs work (first thing we do after the immediate crisis is over: take one apart to study.) Mind magic is a great idea, unfortunately we don't have anyone who uses it in our party, and scale would also be a problem. If potions work on them we could try putting truth or inhibition-removing potions into the water supply and hope that they betray themselves. (If interrogations without those would work I assume the townspeople would have already tried that.)

According to our DM, Detection spells only work when they look under the skin. So if we could persuade everyone in the city to stab themselves in the arm, which should be a low price to pay... We'd also have to get people to assemble in some places because there's still the scale problem.

We don't know how the constructs receive their instructions (they might not get updates right now anyway and just follow previous instructions because the city is closed off.) And I'm not even sure if anyone knows how to get in contact with the Citadel, especially not with this kind of time pressure, though that's definitely an option worth exploring.

Helpful ideas, thanks!